David and Goliath

We just read the history of David and Goliath in 1 Samuel as a family.  It was a very suspenseful and intriguing story.  Goliath being standing around 9′ to 10′ tall would have weighed somewhere around 700lbs.  In the end David, the ruddy youth sunk a stone via sling in his forehead.  David was certainly not physically able to fight this giant in a fair fist fight nevertheless the LORD was with him and he prevailed!  Below is a gross yet suspenseful modern-day little dude vs. big dude fight.  Check it out.

I’m Back

Okay so I’m back after a long siesta.  I don’t know much of what I’ll say but I’m going to try and blog daily.  Also I’ll be posting a few articles along the way.  Soon I hope to have a new post on Eternal Security.  Currently I am reading ( which has nothing to do with Eternal Security) “Listening To The Spirit In The Text”, Gordon D. Fee and also “The Doctrine Of Substitution in the Old Testament: Fulfilled in Christ”, Hobart E. Freeman.  After these two reads I plan on completing “Pagan Christianity”, Viola/Barna.  I will be posting a review on this work as well.  Thoughts so far?  Well, Hobarts work on the topic is written very well.  He is very engaging and I find him to be a writer that I can follow well.  Gordon Fee’s work is simply astounding!  This is the first Fee reading that I’ve done and simply put, I really like is writing ability.  He is very thorough in his interaction with the text but he also has an amazing ability to captivate a spirit of worship while walking through various texts.  That my friend, is an amazing gift.  As far as Viola’s work goes……….well I’m sympathetic for his attempt to examine Church practice.  He challenges and refutes many things that are without scriptural support for the New Testament believer.  Having said that, I must admit that he seems to have a low view on higher study.  He also has a wacky theory about the scripture being hindered in its potential because of traditional book order and chapter division and verse numbering in the Bible.  I also suspect he has a low view on Canonicity.  More on that later.

A Conversation With A Very Immature Oneness

It is truly sad when a person is so closed minded that you can’t ever have a real conversation with them.  This is NOT the usual exhange you may have with people in Cults.  But you may come across this kind of person ocassionaly.  By the way, the person Hannah listed on the below exchange really wasn’t Hannah, but someone impersonating that name.  Please pray that the eternal Son of God may touch their heart and open it up to reading the Trinity vs. Oneness articles listed on this site and then formulate questions of their own.

Wassup

7:42pmDrew

howdy

7:42pmHannah

wat ru doin

7:43pmDrew

checking this fb

7:43pmHannah

ahh fun

7:43pmDrew

yeah, just seeing if I still have any fans left

7:43pmHannah

fans of wat?

7:44pmDrew

fans of my blabber mouth

7:44pmHannah

so u admit ur a blabber mouth?

lol

7:44pmDrew

I have atheist, agnostics, Oneness, hindus etc. on here

and yes I’m a blabber mouth

7:44pmHannah

i kno lol

Kim says hi

7:45pmDrew

I say the things people without guts wiish they could say

howdy kim

7:45pmHannah

well then. aren’t u bold! lol

7:45pmDrew

I have never feared saying what needs to be said

and I have learned when to be quiet

sometimes that is needed too

7:46pmHannah

yep most deff

7:46pmDrew

so………….?? have you been teaching kim Trinitarianism?

7:46pmHannah

um no

7:47pmDrew

I think you would be a good teacher

7:47pmHannah

she is secure in wat she believes

7:47pmDrew

you are sharp

I don’t get that impression

viz. secure

7:47pmHannah

well if u cnt teach her nothin i sho nuf cnt

7:48pmDrew

not true,

God has many mail deliverers

7:48pmHannah

uh huh

hey question….

u consider my church a cult right?

7:49pmDrew

I believe the Oneness teachings are Cultic

but we must define cult

how do you define it

7:49pmHannah

i dnt exactly kno.

how do u define it

7:51pmDrew

a group of people or religious organization that deinies both the Biblical teachings of God’s nature and denies the historical universal churches understanding of God’s nature.

also this may include variations in soteriology (salvation). How a person is to be saved.

7:52pmHannah

hm

so do u think tht my church is a cult or not?

7:53pmDrew

based on their definition of who God is, they deny the Biblical teaching of the nature of God, and therefore teach a different Jesus, a different Spirit, and a different Gospel. See 2Cor 11;2-4

something more needs to be said of the defintion of a cult

u ready?

7:54pmHannah

i reckon

7:55pmDrew

I have good friends in the Mormon Church, they are certainly a Cult, this does not mean that they are foaming at the mouth and are immoral. Many of them including my friend, are good people, but follow a different Jesus.

which there is not really another Jesus

but a counterfeit

7:56pmHannah

tru3

7:56pmDrew

so that is how I am defining the term

also

a cult appears at a certain point in history

in other words, there was a time that they did not exist

like mormons

7:56pmHannah

k….

7:56pmDrew

in 1800′s

a revelation usually starts a cult

7:57pmHannah

like the park church

7:57pmDrew

someone receives something new

from God

hold on and we can talk about Park Church

7:57pmHannah

tht wasnt me lol

7:57pmDrew

Joseph Smith received a revelation from the angel Moroni that all the religions were wrong

that the true gospel was lost

and that Joseph smith was to restore the true teaching to the church

the same is true of Oneness Pentecostalism

the core teachings began in the second century

and later in the early 1900′s

during a camp meeting at the Assemblies of God

someone had a REVELATION about Jesus name Baptism

and later another REVELATION about the TRinity

and whamo! Oneness was born

8:00pmHannah

and whamo trinity was born

8:00pmDrew

and years later the ASSemblies rounded all the heretics up

and kicked them out

8:00pmHannah

ok soooo

8:01pmDrew

trinity teachings have existed throughout church history

not the 2nd century nor 1900′s

I have the volumes of early church fathers

do you?

anyone can rread them for themselves

8:02pmHannah

um no but bro cain does and im sure i could get ahold of em

8:02pmDrew

great, I can give you reference numbers

and many writiings

look on my blog under Trinity

and you will find my article documenting

8:03pmHannah

ive read everything on ur blog already

8:03pmDrew

many quotes from them way before the 4th century

well, in that one article I quote, Tertullian, Irenaus etc.

and I have the volume numbers cited so you can go read it for yourself

now, what proof do you have for Park Church being a Cult based on my definition of the term above

??

8:06pmHannah

based on your definition you said “a cult appears at a certain point in history

in other words, there was a time that they did not exist”

If im not mistaken at one time the park church DID NOT exist right

8:06pmDrew

that would mean that every new church and new christian is a cult

8:06pmHannah

well that was your definition wasnt it

so YOU tel me

8:07pmDrew

but Oneness people as an organization teaching Oneness did not exist before the early 1900′s

all Christians teach the same on the nature of God. but

8:07pmHannah

i knew you would a way to wiggle out of that one

8:08pmDrew

if a group comes along and says, hey you all got it wrong and we have it right

wiggle out.

8:08pmHannah

yeah

8:08pmDrew

I thought it is my RIGHT to define my terms, not your mis-understandings

that define MY terms smart mouth

8:08pmHannah

thanks know it ALL

8:09pmDrew

I do know it all

8:09pmHannah

this isnt hannah btw

8:09pmDrew

and the Bible says so

I know that

8:09pmHannah

If a man think he stand TAKE HEED lest he FALL

8:09pmDrew

you are the Oneness hiding behind the keyboard

like the Oneness God that hides behind the mask

sometimes the father, the son

the holy ;spirit

never really know who he is’

but if you want to debate something

of substance then come on

otherwise I’m not interested in arguing for sake of argument

8:11pmHannah

you know I have found out that you LOVE let me repeat that you LOVE debating and I guess thats really all you have to do

8:11pmDrew

Jesus loved debating, Paul loved debating so what is your point, you are debating with me now,

whats your point, don’t YOU have something else to do

or do you love debating too????

sure seems like it

try refuting the church history I cited above

refute Tertullians “against Praxus”

have you read it???

8:14pmHannah

nope i dont debate…just because you call it debating doesnt mean that it is…you know if you only had the bible I wonder what you would truly know

8:14pmDrew

I have one here.

I have written much on the subject on the Trinity

8:14pmHannah

i know i know heres your star

8:14pmDrew

it is online, you can read the articles and refute them if you like

I have debates on DVD with a Oneness scholar

you can watch them and respond

to them

8:16pmHannah

I dont have to argue with people and tell them how i know it all for them to see or believe that i am a christian you shouldnt even have to speak or argue your belief for someone to feel the LOVE of God from a person

8:17pmDrew

that is true but if a person, say a mormon, is folowing the wrong Jesus, then it is our Job to demonstrate to them, in a spiriti of love and from the scriptures that they are wrong

1 Peter 3;15

cammands us to do so

8:18pmHannah

i bet you spend the majority of your time responding to comments on your site, and a lot of your time looking for someone to debate with you

8:18pmDrew

nope, I have a full scedule for sure

but do debate if the time arises

and the need is authentic

and only in the spirit of christ

8:19pmHannah

well you sure spent a whole lot of time trying to get bro cain and bro sam to make feel smart by debating with you in a public setting

8:19pmDrew

like my previous public debates

8:20pmHannah

i bet it bothers you that you didnt get that chance huh

8:20pmDrew

that is an “ad hominem” do you know what that means?

are you over the age of 13

??

only God can arrange those things

He is sovereign

and if He wants it to happen, then he would pull cain there

but He needs a willing participant

and Cain is unwilling

8:21pmHannah

to argue with you

8:21pmDrew

he tells you cuz he is above that

8:21pmHannah

nope he hasnt said that one time

8:21pmDrew

but he really couldn’t stand a chance in representing the Oneness position

8:21pmHannah

he doesnt have to do that

8:21pmDrew

there are much more capable people

that is right, he doesn’t have to

and that is fine, my writings ar e onli8ne for people to read

and my debates are being passed out to Oneness people On DVD

so a debate with Cain is not essential

8:22pmHannah

yeah i know

8:23pmDrew

if someone has an OPEN mind, then they can look into it themselves

truth has nothing to fear

8:23pmHannah

nope but it sure would make you feel smart huh

8:23pmDrew

no I have a verse for you

8:23pmHannah

isnt this your version of the truth

8:23pmDrew

my favourite

are you ready

8:23pmHannah

i know and your interpretation i assume

8:23pmDrew

no interpretation

just the verse, you read it for ;yourself

and tell me what it means

ready????????

8:25pmHannah

you know i think you think you have a debate going but have fun debating with yourself in the mirror cause i have better things to do like talk to my God Jesus

I will be praying for you

8:26pmDrew

1 Cor 8;2

read it

it decribes you and me.

but know it alls wouldn’t like it.

8:27pmHannah

oh halleluia, vain babblings, so what is the purpose hmmmmm oh yeah there is none

8:27pmDrew

that really makes sense

NOT

you should try not being so offended

8:28pmHannah

thanks gosh i thought you didnt have it in you

8:28pmDrew

and actually show the love of christ to those you disagree with

8:28pmHannah

ok????

8:28pmDrew

but it is hard if your emotions control you

scanning the conversation between us. you have largely attacked my character

8:29pmHannah

i am controlled by the emotions of God

8:29pmDrew

and not dealt with my argument

and that is a logical fallacy

fallacious reasoning on your part

8:29pmHannah

thanks God bless you toooo

8:30pmDrew

but if we want to learn from one another

8:30pmHannah

your not really use to this are u

oh come on that stuff works with others not me

8:30pmDrew

from some Oneness people yes,

but most are less offended, and less emotional than you.

8:30pmHannah

thanks

8:30pmDrew

I do have Oneness frends that don’t attack me like this

8:31pmHannah

would you like some cheese with your wine

8:31pmDrew

know, I would like some maturity on your part, cuz you argue like my 3 year old

8:31pmHannah

oh wow Im attacking goodness im really offended now

NOT

8:32pmDrew

Jesus didn’t act like you

God doesn’t act like you

do you have ANYTHING of substance to say?????

if not I would rather not talk to you

8:33pmHannah

i figured you knew exactly how God acted oh and Jesus too

8:34pmDrew

and your point is??????

8:34pmHannah

hmmmmm would you like a spot of tea and crumpet

hehehehe

8:34pmDrew

bye

8:34pmHannah

awww leaving so soon

8:34pmDrew

I’ll pray for you to grow up

8:34pmHannah

thanks

right back at you

8:35pmDrew

I will copy this exchange and share it with my Oneness friends and let them judge who is childish in this conversation.

8:35pmHannah

the bible says except you become as a child

should i be scared